As to the "training wheels for newbies"... Fighters weren't just training wheels for newbies in 3E. They were power-houses, starting at level 1 and continuing through the progression.
Give me an intelligently-geared fighter, and I'll take out the wizard or druid of the same level and gear power, almost every time (with the almost part referring to me failing my fort or die save, and the always part referring to me killing them in the first or second round from massive damage.). Like I said, 4E is probably better balanced. That is a good thing.
But it would be nice if the balance didn't come at the expense of some old D&D standbys. I'll admit that some of the features sound interesting, and sure most fighters end of developing signature moves in anime over the course of their careers, but I'd prefer if it was an optional investment, not an assumed one. Like the feats for leap attack and such in 3E - those made for some very interesting character choices, but you could also invest in things with constant bonuses, but smaller one-round effectiveness.
Sometimes when I play, I have my mind primed for strategic casting. Sometimes when I play, my mind is too brain-dead from exhaustion for me to enjoy anything but rolling dice and watching stuff fall down. I know most people have those moments - and if they frequently coincide with your D&D schedule, it's nice to have a class available to fulfill that need to not make any choices other than what to hit next. (Like I presume Belinda feels in a battle)
I'm not saying that *all* warrior classes should be that way. But I think having one that is - or having the option to craft one that way - is a good thing, not a bad thing.
As long as it is neither over-powered nor under-powered either at end-game or in the beginning.
Which has been D&D's problem since the beginning, hmm? I know that balance has been a huge problem since 1E.
They started off saying that Fighters should be easier in the beginning but less useful in the end. They continued this line of thought in 2E.
Then 3E came along, and they thought that they fixed it by making Fighters have a steady power progression, without realizing that they nerfed the capabilities of magic with a poor magic defense (fort, ref, will) system.
I call it poor, because monsters ended up being designed to be hittable by a fighter of the correct level, but with enough hit points to survive a blow - which meant either more HD (which pumped all of their magic defense like crazy) or more Con (which pumped part of their magic defense like crazy, and weakened the stat pool for Str).
In 4E, they really tried to build the classes off similar and mostly equal templates (from the brief look I gave it), which would certainly be more balanced than the "Half-Giant Barbarian crushes Gnomish Sorcerer in the first round of combat" concept of gaming.
I wasn't trying to say that 4E didn't have it's perks - I even said originally "there's lots of interesting stuff in 4th" - I was just expressing that my main problems with it were not the same one you mentioned in your post.
It's certainly an interesting and different direction, and I think that the genre will grow from it, but I also hope that the "slugger" makes a reappearance.
And having a character that is only good at "the basics" of gameplay, but is FAR better at them then other classes, doesn't have to *just* be training wheels for newbies. But it can be a comfortable way for them to get into the game, while also being a refreshingly simple character concept for a veteran who's tired of slinging meteors or turning into trees and beasties.
Re: D&D
Give me an intelligently-geared fighter, and I'll take out the wizard or druid of the same level and gear power, almost every time (with the almost part referring to me failing my fort or die save, and the always part referring to me killing them in the first or second round from massive damage.). Like I said, 4E is probably better balanced. That is a good thing.
But it would be nice if the balance didn't come at the expense of some old D&D standbys. I'll admit that some of the features sound interesting, and sure most fighters end of developing signature moves in anime over the course of their careers, but I'd prefer if it was an optional investment, not an assumed one. Like the feats for leap attack and such in 3E - those made for some very interesting character choices, but you could also invest in things with constant bonuses, but smaller one-round effectiveness.
Sometimes when I play, I have my mind primed for strategic casting. Sometimes when I play, my mind is too brain-dead from exhaustion for me to enjoy anything but rolling dice and watching stuff fall down. I know most people have those moments - and if they frequently coincide with your D&D schedule, it's nice to have a class available to fulfill that need to not make any choices other than what to hit next. (Like I presume Belinda feels in a battle)
I'm not saying that *all* warrior classes should be that way. But I think having one that is - or having the option to craft one that way - is a good thing, not a bad thing.
As long as it is neither over-powered nor under-powered either at end-game or in the beginning.
Which has been D&D's problem since the beginning, hmm? I know that balance has been a huge problem since 1E.
They started off saying that Fighters should be easier in the beginning but less useful in the end. They continued this line of thought in 2E.
Then 3E came along, and they thought that they fixed it by making Fighters have a steady power progression, without realizing that they nerfed the capabilities of magic with a poor magic defense (fort, ref, will) system.
I call it poor, because monsters ended up being designed to be hittable by a fighter of the correct level, but with enough hit points to survive a blow - which meant either more HD (which pumped all of their magic defense like crazy) or more Con (which pumped part of their magic defense like crazy, and weakened the stat pool for Str).
In 4E, they really tried to build the classes off similar and mostly equal templates (from the brief look I gave it), which would certainly be more balanced than the "Half-Giant Barbarian crushes Gnomish Sorcerer in the first round of combat" concept of gaming.
I wasn't trying to say that 4E didn't have it's perks - I even said originally "there's lots of interesting stuff in 4th" - I was just expressing that my main problems with it were not the same one you mentioned in your post.
It's certainly an interesting and different direction, and I think that the genre will grow from it, but I also hope that the "slugger" makes a reappearance.
And having a character that is only good at "the basics" of gameplay, but is FAR better at them then other classes, doesn't have to *just* be training wheels for newbies. But it can be a comfortable way for them to get into the game, while also being a refreshingly simple character concept for a veteran who's tired of slinging meteors or turning into trees and beasties.