Just to give a little more context...
Jul. 30th, 2011 06:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
alexandraerinSo, here's what not trying something on the internet looks like. (MASSIVE trigger warning for rape and emotional manipulation in action.)
Edit: She has apparently "rethought the wisdom" of her post and removed the body of it, so this is going to look weird and the subject line about "context" seems really ironic.
I guess there's no doubt now that she knows and always knew she wouldn't be facing us in court. I guess I can stop worrying that she'll be desperate enough to try a defamation suit. Not that I wouldn't have been able to defend my claims in court. But any lawyer she might have been talking to would definitely fire her as a client after she posted this.
She sure has an interesting spin on everything. She says Jack wanted to keep her without any means of support; not true! When we were all together in November of last year, Jack tried to help her complete job applications but Caoimhe insisted over and over again that she was unemployable. So Jack encouraged her to self-publish her gaming materials or at least do a freeware/tipjar approach but she insisted over and over again that no one would ever pay for her work.
Her insistence that no one would ever find her games worth playing or paying for made H&H announcement more than a little shock. In Jack's words, the fact that she did after the rape makes him feel like she took the confidence she needed from him.
Me? I recognize now that this repeated protestation of being worthless and hopeless is part of her manipulative M.O.... she also acted like she had no other means of emotional support or friends in order to keep his attention focused on her. To be fair, I'm sure her depression played a part in this, too. But I believe she was probably always working towards a product launch; insisting that she was no good and her products were no good was a tactic to keep Jack's attention focused on her.
And what she describes as being a plan to have her as a "kept woman" was in fact the idea of employing her to help with some of the things I'm not good at (you know, the office-y stuff) in my own career as a crowdfunded author.
Was her moving to Maryland and living with us (NB: I don't currently live with Jack, but this was long-range planning) Jack's idea? Yes, but as far as he knew she wanted to be with him.
And a kept woman? The idea was that employing her in a home business would help her get some money of her own while also helping her see the potential for doing something with her own materials. We even looked into the health insurance laws of Maryland to see if we could help her get health insurance, as she had complained about the cost of various things related to that.
(We were happy to discover that we wouldn't have to set up a small business and list her as an employee; the self-employed in Maryland are entitled to participate in the small business group insurance. Why were we happy? Because that would help her get her own enterprises going.)
She presented herself to Jack like she was a bird with a broken wing, and his goal was to show her that she could fly after all.
Naive? Yes! Maybe a little self-important of him? She made him feel important when she acted like he was the only good thing in her life and she had nothing going on. Far from taking advantage of that or encouraging her in that thinking, he wanted to show her it wasn't true.
That's why he would never have been threatened by her being successful in launching an RPG product. He has encouraged her to do that the entire time they knew each other, and took her at her word when she said she didn't have it in her to do so.
I mean, for fuck's sake... I'm his "pet" and I make more money than the rest of the household put together! And though he helps make sure I don't piss it away on random purchases of LEGO brand building blocks or whatever shiny thing catches my eye (impulse control: not my strong point), it's my money. It's in my name. He doesn't see it. He doesn't spend it.
...
I'm not going to go through her account point by point, but the reason Jack kept messaging her and kept IMing her is that every time she initiated contact... during and after the relationship... well, she made sure he knew how bad she was feeling and how lonely and alone she was and what a bad person she thought she was. It was concern. I've written elsewhere about what a charitable person Jack is, and that's true.
She says it's not healthy for him to have done that, and that much I agree with. I'd urged him to block her from everything in his life, after he got to the point where he could talk about what really happened.
Anyway, her entire account is not a top-to-bottom fabrication. Even the parts that she spins... well, when I wrote my post I know she knows enough "embarrassing" details about me to last a lifetime. That's what happens when you're in an overlapping relationship for a year.
I want everybody to think about that, that the last thing we expected was for her to clam up. We expected her to fire back. And I'll say that there's more spin then there is outright lies in her post. You see me denying the weird stuff? No.
Here is the most important fact of the matter: her denial consists of saying that she didn't rape him... but not that the events in the hotel room didn't happen. Her denial includes her saying "her brain is weird" (So's mine! Join the club!) and saying in one of her emails that she "doesn't remember those things being said" (I don't recall if that's one up, but we'll throw the whole chain up if we need to), not that they weren't said.
She throws up a lot of stuff that's irrelevant and a lot of stuff she can spin and a lot of stuff that she thinks will make us less sympathetic to the feminist circles she wants to keep her credibility with, but it's all to try to distract from stuff like this:
That's from her transcript. That's her words, quoting Jack's characterization. Do you see her arguing with that characterization? Because that is the incident I have described. That is what I stood and watched. And while that description is also "short on details" as mine was, let me tell you that the part where he was "asking" her to stop and then just couldn't talk... it wasn't even as neat and sanitary as that sounds. A person doesn't just reach the point where they go from being okay to not being able to talk. He went through begging and pleading and whimpering and sobbing, and there was a point where I thought she had gotten the message and stopped and so I thought it was over.
I didn't "go back to sleep" twice. I went to sleep for the first time after I thought it was over, after I'd stood and watched. I woke up when I found out it wasn't.
As for my reasons for not intervening, for going to sleep?
I've spoken about that.
She can't get around what happened in the hotel room. She can't get away from that. She might reveal every thing she thinks might embarrass us to get us to shut up and go away but she can't get past what happened in the hotel room.
She put the transcripts up even though they reveal the truth because she's afraid of how it would look if we did it (frankly, I don't know if Jack -keeps- transcripts) first, but she surrounded it with as much garbage as she can knowing that the transcripts look like a wall o' text and that we look like BDSM poly weirdos.
Well, I'll own it: I look like a BDSM poly weirdo in all this because I am a BDSM poly weirdo.
Read her post, but in particular read the transcripts. She can't spin the transcripts. She tries to. Like this conversation she calls "Jack saying he'll make her take him somewhere."
See? Oh dear God. I didn't notice before but she left his email address there in the original. Jack blanked hers when he posted stuff, and it's on her public profiles! She just gave the email address of her victim to the world. Nice. I'm redacting that shit. I hope she does the same.
...digression aside, look at that. Jack says he's going to be in California. She accurately describes this sort of thing as small talk. What does she do? She brings up going to a restaurant with him. First mention of doing something together. She throws it out there. "I am so making you take me there", she wants to emphasize the "making" and play it off like this is stalking.
Fun fact: Jack's family is in California. That's why he's going to be there around Christmas. He wasn't in fact actually looking forward to seeing Caoimhe when she threw that out but he was trying really hard not to do anything that would make her feel rejected or question her worth.
When his rapist expressed interest in seeing him when he was in the area, he agreed to go out for lunch with her rather than have the whole "I'M A BAD PERSON! I SHOULD DIE!", "No, no, you're not." conversation. Or cut her off completely, something she could have accomplished really easily if she'd actually wanted to do.
Anyway, read the transcripts: anything in them that you think doesn't jibe with what we've been saying, I'll be happy to address.
And something to bear in mind: Jack is in his twenties. I don't know Caoimhe's age but she's quite a bit older. I don't judge that in a relationship, but it can be a factor when one person is extremely manipulative and the other is more than a touch naive.
Pare away the personal details and the bullshit and the spin and the parts that are he said/she said, and this is what you're left with:
Her defense is she doesn't remember hearing him say no.
That's it!
That's her whole defense!
That is all she has.
That, and an attempt to make Jack out to be a creepy FLDS preacher, but all she's doing there is illustrating exactly why this isn't something the courts and police would be ideal for.
Oh, and as one note further... just in case there's any doubt in anyone's mind that she's either deliberately trying to spin facts out of alignment with reality or that she herself has lost touch with reality:
Citation needed, Caoimhe.
Citation needed.
Anybody who thinks this is a vendetta or we're lying or mistaken or whatever, please. Look at our posts. I have a tag for mine. Jack doesn't post that often. Find this admission she speaks of.
Not there?
There you go.
Edit: She has apparently "rethought the wisdom" of her post and removed the body of it, so this is going to look weird and the subject line about "context" seems really ironic.
I guess there's no doubt now that she knows and always knew she wouldn't be facing us in court. I guess I can stop worrying that she'll be desperate enough to try a defamation suit. Not that I wouldn't have been able to defend my claims in court. But any lawyer she might have been talking to would definitely fire her as a client after she posted this.
She sure has an interesting spin on everything. She says Jack wanted to keep her without any means of support; not true! When we were all together in November of last year, Jack tried to help her complete job applications but Caoimhe insisted over and over again that she was unemployable. So Jack encouraged her to self-publish her gaming materials or at least do a freeware/tipjar approach but she insisted over and over again that no one would ever pay for her work.
Her insistence that no one would ever find her games worth playing or paying for made H&H announcement more than a little shock. In Jack's words, the fact that she did after the rape makes him feel like she took the confidence she needed from him.
Me? I recognize now that this repeated protestation of being worthless and hopeless is part of her manipulative M.O.... she also acted like she had no other means of emotional support or friends in order to keep his attention focused on her. To be fair, I'm sure her depression played a part in this, too. But I believe she was probably always working towards a product launch; insisting that she was no good and her products were no good was a tactic to keep Jack's attention focused on her.
And what she describes as being a plan to have her as a "kept woman" was in fact the idea of employing her to help with some of the things I'm not good at (you know, the office-y stuff) in my own career as a crowdfunded author.
Was her moving to Maryland and living with us (NB: I don't currently live with Jack, but this was long-range planning) Jack's idea? Yes, but as far as he knew she wanted to be with him.
And a kept woman? The idea was that employing her in a home business would help her get some money of her own while also helping her see the potential for doing something with her own materials. We even looked into the health insurance laws of Maryland to see if we could help her get health insurance, as she had complained about the cost of various things related to that.
(We were happy to discover that we wouldn't have to set up a small business and list her as an employee; the self-employed in Maryland are entitled to participate in the small business group insurance. Why were we happy? Because that would help her get her own enterprises going.)
She presented herself to Jack like she was a bird with a broken wing, and his goal was to show her that she could fly after all.
Naive? Yes! Maybe a little self-important of him? She made him feel important when she acted like he was the only good thing in her life and she had nothing going on. Far from taking advantage of that or encouraging her in that thinking, he wanted to show her it wasn't true.
That's why he would never have been threatened by her being successful in launching an RPG product. He has encouraged her to do that the entire time they knew each other, and took her at her word when she said she didn't have it in her to do so.
I mean, for fuck's sake... I'm his "pet" and I make more money than the rest of the household put together! And though he helps make sure I don't piss it away on random purchases of LEGO brand building blocks or whatever shiny thing catches my eye (impulse control: not my strong point), it's my money. It's in my name. He doesn't see it. He doesn't spend it.
...
I'm not going to go through her account point by point, but the reason Jack kept messaging her and kept IMing her is that every time she initiated contact... during and after the relationship... well, she made sure he knew how bad she was feeling and how lonely and alone she was and what a bad person she thought she was. It was concern. I've written elsewhere about what a charitable person Jack is, and that's true.
She says it's not healthy for him to have done that, and that much I agree with. I'd urged him to block her from everything in his life, after he got to the point where he could talk about what really happened.
Anyway, her entire account is not a top-to-bottom fabrication. Even the parts that she spins... well, when I wrote my post I know she knows enough "embarrassing" details about me to last a lifetime. That's what happens when you're in an overlapping relationship for a year.
I want everybody to think about that, that the last thing we expected was for her to clam up. We expected her to fire back. And I'll say that there's more spin then there is outright lies in her post. You see me denying the weird stuff? No.
Here is the most important fact of the matter: her denial consists of saying that she didn't rape him... but not that the events in the hotel room didn't happen. Her denial includes her saying "her brain is weird" (So's mine! Join the club!) and saying in one of her emails that she "doesn't remember those things being said" (I don't recall if that's one up, but we'll throw the whole chain up if we need to), not that they weren't said.
She throws up a lot of stuff that's irrelevant and a lot of stuff she can spin and a lot of stuff that she thinks will make us less sympathetic to the feminist circles she wants to keep her credibility with, but it's all to try to distract from stuff like this:
(10:02:29 PM) Kynn: read this: "And then one night I was having a panic attack and trying to cuddle you to make myself feel better and you pinned me down and I was asking you to stop and you just said "mmm, jack, you're so sexy Jack" and I just couldn't talk and I couldn't get free" and tell me why you think a near-rapist like this should live
(10:02:42 PM) Kynn: or forget the near-
(10:02:47 PM) Kynn: that's rape apologism
That's from her transcript. That's her words, quoting Jack's characterization. Do you see her arguing with that characterization? Because that is the incident I have described. That is what I stood and watched. And while that description is also "short on details" as mine was, let me tell you that the part where he was "asking" her to stop and then just couldn't talk... it wasn't even as neat and sanitary as that sounds. A person doesn't just reach the point where they go from being okay to not being able to talk. He went through begging and pleading and whimpering and sobbing, and there was a point where I thought she had gotten the message and stopped and so I thought it was over.
I didn't "go back to sleep" twice. I went to sleep for the first time after I thought it was over, after I'd stood and watched. I woke up when I found out it wasn't.
As for my reasons for not intervening, for going to sleep?
I've spoken about that.
She can't get around what happened in the hotel room. She can't get away from that. She might reveal every thing she thinks might embarrass us to get us to shut up and go away but she can't get past what happened in the hotel room.
She put the transcripts up even though they reveal the truth because she's afraid of how it would look if we did it (frankly, I don't know if Jack -keeps- transcripts) first, but she surrounded it with as much garbage as she can knowing that the transcripts look like a wall o' text and that we look like BDSM poly weirdos.
Well, I'll own it: I look like a BDSM poly weirdo in all this because I am a BDSM poly weirdo.
Read her post, but in particular read the transcripts. She can't spin the transcripts. She tries to. Like this conversation she calls "Jack saying he'll make her take him somewhere."
(2:39:33 PM) Jack: Oh, I should be in CA around Christmas
(2:40:17 PM) caoimhe: Cool, maybe we can go to the Hat or Philippe's or something. Will Sarah come too?
(2:41:02 PM) Jack: Yeah, Sarah's coming too.
(2:41:22 PM) Jack: I have never been to the Hat, so I am so making you take me there
(3:32:08 PM) caoimhe: okay
See? Oh dear God. I didn't notice before but she left his email address there in the original. Jack blanked hers when he posted stuff, and it's on her public profiles! She just gave the email address of her victim to the world. Nice. I'm redacting that shit. I hope she does the same.
...digression aside, look at that. Jack says he's going to be in California. She accurately describes this sort of thing as small talk. What does she do? She brings up going to a restaurant with him. First mention of doing something together. She throws it out there. "I am so making you take me there", she wants to emphasize the "making" and play it off like this is stalking.
Fun fact: Jack's family is in California. That's why he's going to be there around Christmas. He wasn't in fact actually looking forward to seeing Caoimhe when she threw that out but he was trying really hard not to do anything that would make her feel rejected or question her worth.
When his rapist expressed interest in seeing him when he was in the area, he agreed to go out for lunch with her rather than have the whole "I'M A BAD PERSON! I SHOULD DIE!", "No, no, you're not." conversation. Or cut her off completely, something she could have accomplished really easily if she'd actually wanted to do.
Anyway, read the transcripts: anything in them that you think doesn't jibe with what we've been saying, I'll be happy to address.
And something to bear in mind: Jack is in his twenties. I don't know Caoimhe's age but she's quite a bit older. I don't judge that in a relationship, but it can be a factor when one person is extremely manipulative and the other is more than a touch naive.
Pare away the personal details and the bullshit and the spin and the parts that are he said/she said, and this is what you're left with:
Her defense is she doesn't remember hearing him say no.
That's it!
That's her whole defense!
That is all she has.
That, and an attempt to make Jack out to be a creepy FLDS preacher, but all she's doing there is illustrating exactly why this isn't something the courts and police would be ideal for.
Oh, and as one note further... just in case there's any doubt in anyone's mind that she's either deliberately trying to spin facts out of alignment with reality or that she herself has lost touch with reality:
first, because it's clearly (as both Jack and Alexandra admit in their LJ posts) an accusation timed to cause financial harm to the Heartbreak & Heroines roleplaying game project
Citation needed, Caoimhe.
Citation needed.
Anybody who thinks this is a vendetta or we're lying or mistaken or whatever, please. Look at our posts. I have a tag for mine. Jack doesn't post that often. Find this admission she speaks of.
Not there?
There you go.
I'm going to add this as a comment because I don't think I should keep editing new things in:
on 2011-07-31 01:27 am (UTC)Everything she has done... the private emails where she tried to negotiate, then her public "lawyer up" statements and now this... everything she has done has been calculated to make us back down and make this go away.
And that's why we're not going anywhere. I doubt this is the last escalation we'll see, but we're not going anywhere.
Edit Again: Also, comment screening is on. Ask to be unscreened.